vaultofthearchonfandomcom-20200214-history
115520-say-no-to-f2p
Page 1, Page 2, Page 3, Page 4, Page 5, Page 6, Page 7 Content ---- ---- ---- ---- I share this sentiment hence the thread :( | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- I've already explained at length in other threads why I dislike a F2P model. It boils down to I do not enjoy cash shops intruding into gameplay and pulling away content that I would rather be available through in-game means. Cash shops are horrid. | |} ---- ---- ---- Regardless of the model, you still pay money into the game, right? At least with a sub model I am paying a set amount and know that I have access to everything I want in-game. | |} ---- Yeah, I'd buy a year sub at this point too. | |} ---- ---- ---- This is pretty much how I feel. I have no strong pro or anti F2P feelings. I judge solely based on whether or not I'm enjoying myself. | |} ---- ---- Everything you said here Vic | |} ---- ^ this | |} ---- That's not feasible. They've already made their money from box sales. All converting to B2P would do is cut off the influx of money they're currently making from subs. B2P w/optional sub (with extra benefits) would work - although that would also most likely mean a cash shop, as well. | |} ---- But it would be a lot fiscally friendly for the modern gamer. Don't have to worry about sacrificing pizza money for game night. Pizza ish gud | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Agreed 100% | |} ---- I don't think you understand. Say Carbine sold 200,000 boxes and now they have 50,000 subs. They've already spent the money they got from box sales, and what's keeping the company afloat is the money coming in from subscriptions. If they make it B2P, they could potentially attract new players (I would imagine that a substantial number of people who would play have already bought the game), but they'd immediately cut off $500-750,000 a month coming in from subscriptions. They're not going to do that. | |} ---- ---- I think the new player influx could steady out the lost mandatory box price. Plus, they could try branching out into other media. I don't think Wildstar has developed any novel series or web cartoons yet. That could be a useful form of alternate revenue. | |} ---- People don't trust the developers to say the truth, because they not always do. Remember that when developers speak publicly they are not only speaking to the players, but also to investors. There's also nothing stopping them from saying in an interview "Yeah, we are not going F2P" while at the same time developing the needed framework, or telling their investors or NCSoft or whomever that they totally are going F2P. This isn't helped by the mmorpg.com interview: it has a bunch of blantant falsehoods that at best can be qualified as "PR damage control". Some players might feel the need to vocalize their disgust towards certain practices in the hope that the developers won't be forced to go there. That's the point of the thread. With that said: no F2P for me, thank you. I don't know if I'll stay or not in the game if they do that, but I will certainly not buy anything from their cash shop. Unless they keep subscriptions and give us an stipend. But then I'm sure the monthly stipend won't be enough to even buy a frozen banana. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Technically that's B2P. I think people are talking about games like Neverwinter when they're talking about f2p. | |} ---- This game won't ever be like Neverwinter because too much went into production. I do see this game going the B2P route though. I think a lot of people confuse the two including myself some times. I think there are a lot of people that think that you guys are just talking about dropping the subscription. Dropping both the price of the subscription and the price of the game itself is insane though.... Also, saying sub games are less toxic....it's hard to agree with that considering the fact that League of Legends is like walking into Disney's Magical Kingdom. One slip of the tongue is a perma ban... | |} ---- ---- Your avatar is perfect for that post. | |} ---- lol I thought the exact same thing! | |} ---- DOTA's community is horrible, I can't imagine League is any better? Every game of DOTA I play is a 50/50 chance someone will rage hard, quit early and ruin the game, go on a racist tangent, or just be a big bag of poop. Add the language barriers and it's close to gaming hell sometimes. edited for language lol, I thought the forum would *cupcake* it for me. :P | |} ---- Well riot is starting to bring down the hammer more on toxic players. It's still toxic, but riot is doing some clean up. | |} ---- ---- The game isn't dead, and there are a lot of changes coming that have a good chance of bringing lots of people back. | |} ---- ---- ---- http://forums.riftgame.com/general-discussions/general-discussion/438806-isnt-p2w.html As you can see from that link, Trion finally started adding huge bonuses for extra cash. Honestly F2P just does not work as it is supposed to. People can say what they want, but mounts and cosmetic gear in a store *cupcake* me off. I will gladly pay $15 each and every month and be able to EARN the gear. If this game goes F2P, I will likely hang around a bit. Overall I am sure my WS life will be cut short at the first sight of P2W. I honestly cant handle a F2P system. All it consists of are the devs trying to balance content with income. I do not like feeling as if an update has some hidden income agenda behind it. That ruins the fun for me. I am not ignorant to the fact however that WS is not doing well. I would not blame them if it became a major funding issue and they had NO other option. For me, I just cant handle the mindset that not everything is attainable. It drives me insane. Thats my opinion but remember folks, this is indeed a business, and if they are gonna have to close doors at this rate, F2P might be a last resort, not really a choice they made. | |} ---- ---- NCsoft wouldn't make business decisions by these forums anyway, that includes the rare chance they would shut Wildstar down due to anti f2p I quit posts. It's just the opinions of players invested in a game that is in limbo. | |} ---- ---- Nostalgia goes a long way. StarWars was able to cash in so well because its audience went far past just the mmo player. A long history through movies, books, comics, and other games brought players to SWTOR that never even played an mmo before, but because this fan was a Star Wars fan he/she played that mmo. Another good example is Final Fantasy, if it didn't have that huge IP behind it and fanbase pre mmo would it have been given the second chance to the success we see today? Many games also promote other media to draw all sorts of players, for example Blizzards Lords of War videos preparing for WoD, SWTOR comic strip and books (fun read), GW books, etc...keeps the community in the world even when they're not playing in that world. | |} ---- ---- Sooo much content. x4 Adventures that are mainly done for attunement, and the few people that enjoy running them 40 times in a row for X piece of gear. Dungeons are actually fun, but most people farm STL or SC, SSM and KV are almost never done except for attunement. Raids, GA, most raiders are in here. DS, almost nobody doing it. So we have ~2 dungeons and 1 raid that really see most of the activity. And then there's PvP, masochists and arena teams, not many people compared to PvE. So no, there's not much keeping people here, most of my raid group only logs in x3 times a week for 3 hours, and that's it. | |} ---- You are the ONLY person, in countless, countless posts I've read on the issue, that has claimed they would spend money in a cash shop. I've read dozens from people that say they can't afford the $15 a month or that they just want to play for free. I don't think Wildstar would have many/enough whales if it tried. You'd have to spend ALOT of money. | |} ---- Uh LoL is extremely toxic most people plat and above just don't even bother with reporting and the tribunal got shut down. DOTA is extremely similar. | |} ---- ---- Game is basically on life support atm with the current population not enough to sustain future development costs of the game. Drop 3 won't do much cause content wise from what I've read it's a daily zone and a new map. It'll end up like blight Haven and northern wastes where players get bored of em after a week. Then we'll have to wait until February for the next patch? | |} ---- I just resubbed. But i will say this. Is not in our hands if it goes f2p or not. Is in the numbers. They will make that decision on whether or not it will happen. I currently play FF ARR and this only and if this game goes F2P i might play or i might not. The fact is that an MMO community can make a game successful or fail completely. IF i see a toxic community of elitist players i walk away from said game period. So far i have not seen that in FF ARR. I did experience it in wildstar on the very 1st dungeon of this game a while back. Rift is F2p now but its full of elitist jerks. To me rift went to a worse scenario since it went f2p. The same can happen to Wildstar. Time will tell. My money goes where i have fun period and if the community makes the game a horrible experience i walk away. | |} ---- I very much doubt Carbine would be able to sell enough new boxes to make up for the loss in subs that a switch to B2P would entail, which is what I'm talking about. Right now they have a steady (?) influx of revenue from subscribers. Any business model they switch to would have to be designed in a way to keep most of that money coming in in addition to gaining additional money. When sub-based games go F2P, most don't go completely free, but have an optional subscription, with enough benefits to keep people subscribing. TSW went B2P, but also has an optional sub (with benefits). Sub-based games generally don't go B2P a la GW2's model. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Too hardcore for the current casual consumer market. If this game came out 14 years ago, it might have been a big sell. You know, before World of Warcraft showed up and showed everyone you don't have to devote all your time to an MMO at the sacrifice of your personal life. O_O | |} ---- Fight? Fight what? Fight HOW? NCSoft owns Carbine. Owns all of it, can fire any of the dev team at will, can shut the game down or raise subs to $100 a month or do whatever they like. What kind of "fight" are you proposing Carbine should put up? Carbine puts some kind of software kill switch on the game code and threatens to sabotage it all unless they are allowed to keep Wildstar P2P? They'd end up in jail before you could say "Don't drop the soap." Carbine's ability to argue effectively with their bosses at NCSoft, if it ever existed, would have been contingent on them producing a thriving game. At that point, Carbine would have had leverage -- "We've created something good for you, something making money, and we need you to trust us to keep doing it and not meddle, please." Then NCSoft would have a motivation to not mess around in order not kill the golden goose and risk losing a profit-making team, although they could still have arbitrarily killed the game if the notion took them, because they had that power. But they wouldn't, if the game was performing. (Probably.) Now, though? With the game struggling? Any credibility the Carbine team had with NCSoft is quite likely gone, and with it any leverage to get their desires heard by their bosses. Right now Carbine has no base of solid past performance to fight from, no reason to be able to say to NCSoft, "Trust us, we know what we're doing," and expect to be believed. Right now, anyone at Carbine with a lick of sense is keeping their head so far down it's between their ankles, at least if they want to stay employed and keep working on the game and trying to improve it. I mean, you guys have actually held jobs, right? You know how that works? You know that if you don't want to do what the boss says, you can quit, but you can't just refuse and expect to keep your job, right? (Assuming your boss doesn't ask you to break the law, of course. And even then he can still fire you if you refuse, and you have to somehow prove it was out of retribution for you refusing to do something illegal -- a real mess.) If you have a strong union backing you, you might be able to fight a little bit within the union rules, but the days of strong unions in the U.S. are long gone, and I'm sure Carbine isn't a union shop anyway. As for being "supportive" if they fight...What do you mean by that? Are you going to make all their mortgage payments when they all get fired for insubordination, which means they'll get no unemployment checks? What kind of support are you offering -- to not cancel your sub? I really don't know how far that $15 a month is going to go when they're all fired, particularly since they money will go to NCSoft's coffers, not the dev's pockets. I get that you don't like the idea of F2P, but please, be a little realistic here. The devs are real people, with lives, careers, and in many cases families. Is what you're suggesting at all reasonable? | |} ---- ---- ---- I think it's because we already have so many subscription based services in television, internet, phones, magazines and other things that paying monthly for a video game becomes sort of excessive. We are kind of in an economic downturn. Any ways to save a few pennies is appreciated. | |} ---- ---- ---- Yeah. But it kinda turns out that paying monthly for a game is pretty low on the entertainment totem pole. Especially when you want to hang out with your friends/family/significant other. 20 bucks for a ticket to Katy Perry in concert with your gal is a lot more enjoyable in the long run than expecting her to raid with you. Unless she's a gamer too. But you can't find that out without looking like a creep. O_o | |} ---- this is not true about WoW... people with longer than 8 years experience in mmoprg knows how vanilla WoW looked... Wildstar is exactly like WoW Vanilla.... challenging, where you have to spend a lot of time before achive anything... Somewhere in the middle of TBC, when badges of justice has been invented and everyone become equal, WoW died as a challenging , best ever mmorpg... | |} ---- I'm not so much pro-F2P as I am pro-"game staying alive". I don't want to see it go F2P, but if it does, I'd like a subscription option to remain. And there are better (Rift) hybrid options than others (SWTOR). If it does go hybrid, I'll keep subbing. I really wouldn't like to see it go purely F2P with no sub option. That being said, a F2P option would bring my wife into the game. She plays games like GW2, and Rift and LotRO as a F2P player. She doesn't have a lot of time to play, so she doesn't see the point in paying a sub, especially with all the F2P options out there. And I think that's where F2P shines - for people that don't have a lot of time, or spend time playing different games according to what they feel like playing. Also, a hybrid option would let people continue to play (or at least check out the game to see what's going on) after they've been away. So, there are definite benefits. As far as cash shops go, people have mixed feelings about them. Most people seem to be OK with there only being convenience and cosmetic items (XP boosts, costumes, vanity pets, mounts, etc.), but others balk at the idea of subbing and still having to pay cash for items. Ideally, whatever is available in a cash shop should be available in-game - or at the very least, the currency used in the cash shop should be able to be gained in-game. By this, I mean being able to gain cash shop currency via achievements and whatnot, not a stipend to subscribers (all that does, at best, is pitch the cash shop as a cash sink for subscribers to spend currency in, and, at worst, entice subscribers to spend additional real money on things their stipend doesn't cover). With Netflix and Hulu, you can run them in the background, so you can pretty much keep a movie or TV show going while you do laundry, eat, exercise, etc. With a game like WildStar, that's going to be the primary activity you're involved in. It's easier to feel you get full value for your money with something that provides passive entertainment. | |} ---- ---- Whoa.. what? Where did you get the idea that NCsoft & Carbine are fighting about F2P? Even worse.. you say that I said it?! I wrote a post about wanting Carbine to keep fighting for the game as I view F2P a defeat. The game itself was not designed with the quality of a F2P game thankfully. Working to bring more people in, fix bugs and postpone considering alternative paying methods like F2P after they have explored all other options. Where did I said anything about NCsoft & Carbine fighting between them? Please stop twisting my words. Are you saying you know something about an internal conflict with NCsoft? Seriously now, do you? As far as I am concerned and informed, NCsoft is fully supporting Carbine and their 'fight' to make the game a big-hit MMO success. | |} ---- ---- You'd be surprised. | |} ---- People who are suggesting FTP are not necessarily people who don't want to pay a sub. They are people who want to have MORE people to play with. The fact that the people who are anti FTP have not worked that out just shows that people are not looking at the big picture. | |} ---- Logical replies with hard case data vs. wild assumptions and childish whining? +1 ;) | |} ---- e: misread that :D | |} ---- There is no other "fight" that makes any sense in this context. Carbine devs are on the record saying they'd rather see the game die than go F2P, but they don't get to make that call -- NCSoft will make that call. Ergo, the only "fight" Carbine could possibly be having over "To F2P or not to F2P?" is with NCSoft. Who, or what, else would they be fighting, if not their publisher with a track record of cancelling games that don't make enough profit? Who else would realistically be able to force Carbine to make the transition? I read your post as you pleading with Carbine to keep pressing the case with NCSoft that F2P is a bad idea for Wildstar. Now you say that's not what you meant, but what did you actually mean? When you say Carbine should fight to keep the game P2P, what they heck were you talking about? Fight who? Fight what? Fight how? Fight the modern MMO player market? Fight the natural desire to have their game played, and hopefully enjoyed, by a lot more people than it is right now? Fight the very forces of capitalism themselves? I read your post as "Carbine, fight off NCSoft's pressure to go F2P!" because NCSoft is the only place any such pressure could possibly come from, and as I said, it won't be an issue of "pressure" when the time comes, it'll be an order that Carbine will have to obey: "Transition the game. Put a plan on my desk in a week. Get going." Any "fight" against NCSoft is hopeless from the outset, but what other fight would you have Carbine fight? And again, what kind of support are you offering? | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- I don't know what Carbine does internally or if there is any conflict with NCsoft. I want them to fight for the success of the game, fight the bugs, fight against the solution of going free-to-play so soon.. the game is out for 3 months only.. how can you seriously want to promote this on such a new game. :( About your replies.. so you made a bad assumption and used it to write a rather long, without real facts post, implicating what I said as the source? Not cool. I am actually rather upset about this twisting of words. I am telling you again that this is not what I wrote and yet you keep using it to push your own agenda on your reply. (Hah.. *facepalm*) Please stop. Honestly. In reply to the topic, F2P is as a solution an irreversible one and this is brand new game with potential. Even if the studio reaches a point that they will have to seriously consider it, I do think they need to explore and try all the alternative options before it. Of course I am just one player, and my subscription is all that I can give. Hope it matters. :) | |} ---- ---- Agreed here. I'm not sure why more games don't do it. | |} ---- ---- ---- Show me an MMO where they didn't stop running content they out-geared. It's the nature of the beast. People will be running dungeons loads again when the itemization patch goes in because all of the dungeon gear will suddenly be better than anything available today before Datascape. Complete speculation pulled out of your butt. | |} ---- Even B2P is off-putting to me, GW2s content falls to the wayside while they focus more on adding gadgets to empty your wallet. If you're going to have an MMO, it's subscription or bust imo. | |} ---- ---- It is not too hardcore for the casual consumer market. It is too hardcore for the slowly paced, standing still, following the skill rotation script generic old MMO player market. Anybody who has ever played an action game has no problem playing this game, and it's not too hard, it just requires a modicum of teamwork. It took me a couple weeks to go from, "holy crap I have to be sober and not blink while playing this game" to "I'm watching TV while drinking vodka shots in a raid and still outputting top 5 DPS while staying out of red". Practice makes perfect, and now when I try to play any other MMO like Archeage, WoW or FF14 I feel like I'm craaaaawwwwwlllllinnnnnnnnngggg through the game at a snails pace, and I'm actively trying to find something to do in real life to keep me busy. | |} ---- I have never seen any MMO that became a more enjoyable experience after changing their business model to F2P. | |} ---- ---- Well, there's Age of Conan. Then again, that was crap before F2P because Age of Conan was the worst MMORPG launch I've ever been in. It couldn't have possibly been worse in F2P. | |} ---- Same here. Not just the article but the fact so many of the key devs are leaving. It paints this dark cloud over the whole game, one im all too familiar with through my experiences in other MMOs that have done the same. My guess? NCSoft has called it in already. The game didnt take off as hoped so theyre sticking their greedy hands into the studio, changing things, possibly even getting the ball rolling on F2P ... thus sucking out the life and creative ambition from the team so theyre looking elsewhere for greener pastures. F2P requires much less man power to develop for so I wouldnt be surprised if a couple rounds of "restructuring" (aka layoffs) occur sooner than later followed by the "surprise we're expanding our options for accessing Wildstar." As for this thread, yes, im also jumping ship the second F2P is announced. Hell im already getting discouraged from playing and questioning whether I should bother investing anymore on whats looking more and more like a sinking ship. | |} ---- ---- You always have to stay subbed to enjoy any mmo. Free to play is a nice way for players to try the game first then spend money if they enjoy it. Rift and LOTRO I think are the best examples. Now yes a lot of MMO that's go F2P go nuts on the micro store and that's bad. SWTOR has a very bad rep due to that, not all mmos have a bad store though. Depends on who is running the game, if WS did go F2P I think it would be ok because carbine would do it right. | |} ---- Not really, F2P is a great way for any game to take developer hours and apply them to something you have to buy beyond the subscription. A free trial is a way for players to try the game first then spend money. Nobody's saying there shouldn't be WoW style trial accounts where you can get up to 15, try a shiphand, have limited chat functions, essentially see if you like the game without bothering people. But people are saying that before NCSoft even begins thinking about F2P, maybe they should figure out how to not make their free trial keys more functional. Right now, handing out your key is putting your neck on the line for a friend to try for seven days, then there's no reward after if you get them in. And they have to jump a 60 dollar up front hurdle much more substantial than a 15 dollar subscription. There's a lot they could do that would work, and things they plan to do most likely, before resigning this game to the F2P dustbin and just tacking a new notice on NCSoft's resume that they can't hack it with the big boys in the subscription world. They won't do it until after Drop 3-4 because there are so many problems flooding the forums, and they'd like to do it during a flood of good publicity. It's certainly not going to be a time when we're complaining about bugs, lack of content, empty servers, and fighting to keep the game from going to F2P Hell not four months from launch. | |} ---- ---- Actually really well put. 100% to this. | |} ---- I really should phrase it that way. I don't like F2P as it's implemented in games. In a vacuum, the concept of not paying a subscription, if nothing else is applied, is fine. The sacrifices made change the nature of that argument, though. There's nothing necessarily wrong with paying less or no subscription in principle, just in practice. There are ways to reduce the subscription that don't do this (like with product placement advertising, for example). Then, developers can develop content with exactly the same incentive and goal and everyone's equal, it's just someone else is paying their sub. That has its own pitfalls, but doesn't necessarily affect game development per se. Or, they could make sure that inviting someone in reduces your subscription if they stay in. Like, if you invite someone into the game to play then as long as they're subbing, you get a discount. Or even make it a permanent sub drop after a few months so people aren't penalized for other people deciding to leave after six months. Things like that would work to lower the cost. I'm not against them extending the sub since they're extending the content drops. Making it 25 dollars every quarter, for example, rather than 15 dollars a month. In a way, I don't have a problem with the elemental B2P for that reason if there's no cash shop added, that's just a subscription that is paid by the expansion, essentially. That's also fine. I'm also not against the opposite of that, just killing the box price and letting people pay into the first month and download the game for "free". Which isn't a lot different than reducing the box price to 20 dollars, but then there's a lot lower barrier to entry for people to actually try the game and play after their 7 day sub is up. Hell, I'm on record saying there's even a way to do a cash shop right. What if they made sure we got our small monthly "thanks for subbing" items like the Sabotage beret. If you're subscribed for the month it's added, it goes onto your account. Period. As a thanks for subbing. But what about someone who picks up to play in November? They have no way of getting a beret. What if they want it? Well, they could make a shop whereby you could essentially go back and retroactively "pay" for the month you weren't here to get that item. You could even use CREDD to purchase it. When I brought that up, a lot of people said it was a slippery slope and it would certainly eventually be exclusive, and that, to their credit, may be true. But that idea, as a concept, would be fine as described. It would be a cash shop I wouldn't mind since it would essentially be a way to buy a month's subscription you weren't here for an item you couldn't get. So my most damning issue with F2P as practiced in the games it's in is that I can come up with a lot better options that don't handcuff game developers. And I don't have an MBA or any experience designing video games, I'm just some schmuck that plays. The fact that F2P seems inevitable to some people really grates on me because, even if the game isn't doing better and something does need to be done to the payment model (which I don't know, but just in that hypothetical scenario), there are so many better ways to do it than to essentially turn your game into an ad board for the stuff you do make money on. Even if subs alone won't float Wildstar as it is, NCSoft has other, and I'd argue better, options as far as game development goes. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Why are you playing on a server everyone transferred off of weeks ago? Carbine has already said they're getting free trials set up but they're not willing to open them up yet until they drop the next Drop to fix many of the issues that pushed players away in the first place. As for F2P, AH use is not something that should be hidden behind a pay wall. Boosts are not something I ever want to see because they are pay to win. | |} ---- ---- Last time I checked Pergo was still the most populated server? *confusion* | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- F2P will be the end of it, not the saviour. The people still playing now WILL quit when F2P hits, leaving the game empty. Good luck trying to get people to come in then. | |} ---- It means less content and more bugs because the devs are focused on keeping the cash shop healthy rather than the game itself. Some of us really like what's happening in WS. Sub model needs to stay, $15/month is nothing for decent content. | |} ---- I dunno about Pergo since I don't play on a PVP server, but Stormtalon is packed. Can't throw a dead rat without hitting somebody. I feel like the PVP community in the game is suffering far more decline than everyone else because of PVP issues (the greatest of which being not being able to do warplots). | |} ---- ---- ---- I'd like to add onto that I don't mind the quarterly drops, but they should throw the subscribers a monthly bone. It doesn't take that much extra QA for a costume set, a housing plug, a new mount, etc. At least that would give everyone a bit of something to hold onto, especially if once in a while we got expeditions, new challenges from plugs, new challenges outside plugs, etc. A quarterly major content drop doesn't mean you can't give everyone a little something every month. Nobody ever complained about our beret or squid hats being bugged. | |} ---- ---- ---- I've played plenty of F2P MMOs, and it hasn't been anything like that. In fact some of them had better communities than WS does right now, by a lot. | |} ---- ---- I just rolled an engineer on Stormtalon since the game was prompting new players to go there, thought what the heck. While I did see a few people on the ship starting area, after that it has been a ghost town. :( Maybe it will pick up though. | |} ---- Like I said in my post, it is true in my experience of F2P. Nothing but 13 year old foul mouths as far as the eye can see. I am glad you have had better luck or maybe you just like that type of scenario. We all have opinions. F2P = Trolls. (oh and nice picture.........) | |} ---- ---- Most people are high level these days. You can't expect to see low level characters packing all that starting zones. Get to the capital city, and do it during evening hours, not during the middle of a work day:P | |} ---- There are already so many options in this game that allows you to 100% ignore anyone/any channel, given your worst case scenario. Instead of being open to a viable solution, you go "waaaaaa I'm an adult, I can't handle people talking in /z at peak hours" and just blanket dismiss F2P. Forgive me if I'm not impressed with your maturity. | |} ---- ---- It's why I said "When it's all boiled down to it's most basic answer as to why I don't like F2P" It's just an opinion. But thanks for trolling me and proving my point :D | |} ---- I'm not trolling you, I'm addressing something I see all the time as a reason to not go F2P in this thread. But if you're determined to categorize anyone disagreeing with you into trolls.... sure why not. | |} ---- Except we have a space hobo shaking his change can in our face every time we click on something. | |} ---- The troll part was you felt the need to put in a picture of a old dude to insinuate that I must be old if I don't like F2P based on my experiences and that I don't know how to work a chat box. :D I am neither old nor a dude. | |} ---- Right w/you on 86 some of these companies. EA, SOE, Trion, and Perfect World are all companies that will never see money from me. I may play GW2 WvW once in a awhile, but they have not seen support in over a year from me, and it looks like Wildstar will put the nail in that NCsoft coffin. No more support for publishers that juggle multiple flash in the pan cash shop focused mmo's. | |} ---- I was expressing how the tone of your post came across to me in picture form. I wasn't calling you old, or a man.... but congratulations for not being either, lol. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- That is a load of... stuff. Bad stuff. The game is not dead. Carbine is actively making efforts to improve upon the aspects of the game that people didn't like. Do not throw the baby out with the bathwater. | |} ---- ---- ---- And the people against it don't want: constant cash events, bots 24/7, bad connectivity, etc... It's not the game being open to everyone or the community going to poop, it's the freemium crap that will become the norm. You're paying a sub right now and you're getting the entire game, if it goes F2P you'll be paying a sub to get the game as it is now, instead of having everything be free and cut down by a percentage. "If you subscribe you get ELITE status and that comes with 120% exp/elder gem/money gain!" (After we cut the original rate down by 20% of course) You'll have to buy a key to open your boomboxes you can buy 1 for 2$ or 11 for 10$. Seems like the greatest deal ever right!? | |} ---- ---- ---- One acronym, TSW. Wildstar won't die, but it will become a withered shell of it's former self. Which is worse? | |} ---- ---- Or will it thrive and flourish as did Star Trek Online when it switched to F2P? There are no easy answers, but I see F2P as an inevitability in the face of an increasingly hostile market. IMO its not matter of if, but rather when. | |} ---- Yep. I love the game to death, but there are only two possible outcomes. 1. F2P 2. F2P, F2P fails, NCSOFT pulls the plug. <_< Everyone in this thread that are claiming they'll leave if the game changes, just go. | |} ---- It depends on what your personal definition of thrive and flourish means, I'm not completely against the game going F2P, I can just see the negative side of it and I don't necesarrily like the thought of going from what I deem as good to what I deem as less good. I've seen what changes when a P2P game goes F2P, I haven't been an attendee to the "apocalypse" so it never bothered me in the slightest, but after shelling out money for the game and the sub I don't really want my investment to mean jackshit. I played Maplestory for damn near 8 years, I have no problem with F2P structure even at a bad extreme. | |} ----